I was posed the following question in a comment on a recent YouTube video and wanted to share my resonse with everyone in the Guild to see if they had an opnion they would like to share.
QUESTION.. do you think it ok for you to put the red thread band on carrie stevens flies you tie since its believed to be he signature. Just asking.
The following is my response. Looking forward to hearing other people opinion!!
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First, I would like to thank you for posting (and posing) this question! The use of the bands of color in Carrie Stevens patterns has been a controversy for many many years. I can totally understand why and respect anyone's desire to NOT include the bands as it is thought to be her signature and since the fly is not being tied by her it should not be included.
Second, I apologize for not getting something written up sooner but I wanted to think the matter through, do some digging and most of all make certain that my response (i.e. 2 cents worth) does not come off as pretensions or snooty. All to often when communicating through text, emails, comments, etc... we fire off a quick response as though the person where right in front of us. Unfortunately, they are not so they do not get to hear the inflection in the voice nor the affect presented by the person speaking and thus have to “reads between” the lines with that being read the wrong way and coming off as “uppity” or callous. I do have my own two cents on this subject but wanted to make certain that you know I welcome other peoples views on fly tying topics. Even if in the end we do not come to some consensus we certainly should be able to discuss topics and share thoughts and ideas. So, again I say, Thank You for posting this question and this topic. By the way, I do not know how many characters are allowed in a comment or a reply so all of this might end up in more then one reply.
Now, to the heart of the matter... When I first started tying Carrie's patterns many years ago I was not aware that the colored band (other then the multi colored ones like in the General MacAuthur or the America {which are Red, White and Blue}) included in her recipe was considered a signature and that many people did not include it out of respect for Mrs. Stevens. Somewhere back in 2007 I purchased a copy of Don Bastian's DVD Traditional Streamers & Bucktails with Don Bastian ( https://www.bennett-watt.com/products/traditional-streamers-bucktail-with-don-bastian ) and in the tying video for the Gray Ghost he mentioned how he does not include the band of color out of respect for Ms. Stevens. I highly recommend this DVD by the way, very informative and well worth the money. So, this got me thinking and doing some research. Two resources I went to were the Hilyard book, Carrie Stevens Maker of Rangeley Favorite Trout and Salmon Flies and Forgotten Flies - Paul Schmookler & Ingrid V. Sils. It is mentioned in the Hilayd book that some tiers do not include the band of color because they feel it is her signature and it is not needed since she is not tying the fly. However, I did notice that in both of those books certain Stevens patterns were tied by someone other then Ms. Stevens and the bands of color were included in the photos and recipes for the books. Most that were not tied by Ms. Stevens in the Hilyard book do NOT have the band of color but a few do. At the time I simply logged it in the back of my head as I was not tying many of her flies and then usually only when teaching them in a tying class. Little did I know at the time there were a number of things I was doing “wrong” back in those days when it came to constructing one of her flies.
Jump forward a few years and the Streamers365 project was launched. The Streamer365 project website is not now active but it has been copied over to the Global Fly Fishers site and you can access the content there ( https://globalflyfisher.com/streamers365 ). I bring this up because I do recall seeing a number of Ms. Stevens patterns being submitted to that project that did have the band of color in the head. Not that everyone else doing it makes it right, they could also have been making a mistake (knowingly or unknowingly).
So about this time I formed the following opinion on this subject. I am not tying these flies to sell which is not to say I am not profiting off of them but I am not tying them just to sell them nor am I passing them off as my own creation. I don't know that I have ever even gotten any of her flies I tied even wet (I hope Ms. Stevens is not rolling her eyes at me)! I have mounted a few and have projects in the works for framed flies to be given away to friends. My purpose it to learn how she tied her flies (to the best of my abilities) and to document/record the process, the entire process, to pass along to future generations the innovative techniques she created (especially being self taught). Not to mention the productive flies!. That said, I feel I need to include the bands of color to do a complete job of representing her fly(s) and her tying style. If I do not include this little item that she included in some of her flies than I am not truly honoring her and her contribution to fly fishing and tying.
That is the view I have had for a number of years and it has since been reinforced a few years ago by the following. The late Don Bastian had a blog that he contributed to for many years. Fortunately, it is still active ( https://donbastianwetflies.wordpress.com/ ). There are two articles he wrote that gave me another perspective on this topic. In one, he talks of how when Ms. Stevens sold her tying business to H. Wendell Folkins in 1953 she specifically stated that any of her flies that had the bands of color in the heads had to continue being tied with the band of color ( https://donbastianwetflies.wordpress.com/2012/02/02/carrie-stevens-and-elizabeth-duly-sisters-pink-lady-streamers/ ). This tells me she was more interested in keeping the patterns intact and if nothing else identifying it as a Carrie Stevens fly. Secondly, Carrie's sister also tied some of Carries flies and she included the bands also.
“To me, the fact that her sister incorporated Carrie’s band into her fly reinforces my belief that the color band was not Carrie’s signature, as much as it was a component of the fly pattern itself. H. Wendell Folkins, to whom she sold her business in 1953, was given specific instructions by Carrie Stevens to continue the use of her color-banded heads. I believe it is a tribute and sign of respect in recognition of a Carrie Stevens pattern to use the banded heads. I personally came to this conclusion last summer after more than 20 years of tying Steven’s patterns without the bands. “ - Don Bastian
In another article on his blog he wrote ( https://donbastianwetflies.wordpress.com/2011/07/26/streamer-four-packs/ ),
“While some fly tiers may consider the banding Carrie’s signature, it is important to note that the colors she used are also integrated into the pattern design. She used different threads for the head and different colors for the band; like a red head with a black band on the Colonel Bates, black head with red band on the Gray Ghost and many others, a black head with orange band as on the Big Ben, and on the America, Casablanca, and Victory, what else but red, white, and blue. This triple-banded head is also on the General MacArthur. I suddenly asked myself: “How can I tie a General MacArthur with a black head?” “ - Don Bastian
Ultimately, as I stated, I think to honor Carrie Stevens one must include the bands of color as she included them in the recipe. That said, if a person chooses not too I am fine with that. I have yet to read anywhere that the colors improve the productivity of the flies or detract from them.
I am still on the path to learning more about her flies as well as learning just how she tied them. No doubt some things I am doing and explaining in some of the videos today will be countered in the future as I learn what I do not yet know. It is possible that at some point in the future my mind will be changed on this subject as well. I remain open and receptive to hearing what others think on this topic and look forward to a lengthy discussion.
Thanks again,
Ian Anderson
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Let me know if you have a hard time reading this or the links do not work. I will do what I can to correct it. - Ian
